Any fans of cyclic ketogenic diet

[qhams]

Just trying to find some folks that follow bodyopus or similar CKD diets.

I usually do this form of diet when I lean up. It seems to keep the lbm up and strength up.

I am 3rd week into it but have just come down with a sinus infection. Not feeling 100%. However I so far gone from 18% to 15% in two weeks with no AS or clen/eca just phenformin.

Main reason for this post is to find out others who follow this diet so I can bouch ideas off them when I get stuck.

Greatest transformation I did was 190 at 30% bodyfat to 175 at 9% bodyfat. STrength stayed up as well. Was doing 400 on deadlifts for 1RM and 365 on squats for 2 to parallel.

[bahndrvr]

Yes, I'm a big fan as it's the only cutting diet I've ever did taht worked for me.

I just posted one asking about Prohormones while on Keto, interested to see the response.

I went from 22% to 11% BF in 5 weeks last time

Good luck, oh, and it stayed off until I blew out my shoulder about a year and ahlf ago

Oh, if your serious about it look up Lyle MacDonald, and his books are worth the money, I have two of them, also have Bodyopus but Lyle modified it a bit to gain mass

[Blood1]

Originally Posted by bahndrvr

I went from 22% to 11% BF in 5 weeks last time

[Lockk]

I am trying this but I am struggling to get to Ketosis I have eaten lean for so long that I am having a hard time finding more foods that have good fat so I can get some variety.

I have the carbs low but I am down to the point that I have about 4 large strawberries and 10-15 blueberries and those are next to go which leaves me nothing but vegetable carbs.

I understand the need to get down 40-60 grams of carbs and get the fat up but jeez I am struggling. It is for sure a challenge to reshuffle my diet to get this to work.

I am currently 6' 4" 232lb @ Approx 11% bf (caliper method 7 site)want to get to 7-8% I am into this 2 weeks so far,

[mjfit]

here is some great info I am starting this diet on april 15 I am going to be doing 6-8 weeks then off back on sometime in june. last time I orderd some keton strips to see when your realy in keton s dont no how accurate they are.

The premise of the diet is high protein (about 1- 1 1/2 gram per pound), moderate fat (about 1/2 g per lb) and low low carbs (no direct sources of carbs). During this diet, the brain goes into ketosis (it uses ketone bodies for energy-- fats) and thus the energy requirements by the body can almost all be supplied by fats (which you'll be taking in plenty of). The only activity that uses carbs will be the weight workout which may use 40grams per workout. You will get these 40g indirectly through the foods you'll be eating. As a backup, the cheat meal you'll be having once per week will provide a storehouse of glycogen (glucose) in case of emergency. So, you see, very little gluconeogenesis in the liver will be occurring. If we keep cortisol low (by
restricting STIMULANTS) we'll ensure that muscle is spared!

HAVE YOUR CHEAT MEAL ON THE SAME DAY EVERY WEEK, last meal of the
day so you dont cheat again.

Fiber helps burn fat! Everyone should take fiber 2x per day. Fiber actually helps increase the absorption of calcium.
When following my diet plan (which includes getting your brain into ketosis), there can be NO starchy carbs eaten!



For a 200lb man:

MEAL #1
5 whole eggs (make sure to buy OMEGA-3 EGGS from the supermarket. They contain virtually NO saturated fat and tons of good OMEGA-3 fats); add another 4 egg whites to this (they don?t need to be the Omega-3 ones; you can use liquid egg whites)

MEAL #2
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoon of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar)

MEAL #3
"Lean Protein Meal": 8oz chicken with 1/2-cup cashew nuts (almonds, or walnuts)

MEAL #4
SHAKE: 50g Whey Protein with 1 ? tablespoons of All Natural Peanut butter (no sugar added)

MEAL #5
"Fatty Protein Meal": 8oz Salmon, Swordfish, or RED MEAT with a green salad (no tomatoes, carrots, or red peppers) with 1 tablespoon of Olive Oil or Macadamia nut oil and vinegar

MEAL #6
SHAKE: 50g Whey with 1 ? tablespoon all natural peanut butter or 4 whole (Omega-3) eggs and 4 extra whites

For a 250lb+ man:
Meal 1 6 whole Omega-3 eggs
Meal 2 8oz chicken with 1/2 cup raw almonds
Meal 3 50g whey with 2 tablespoons all natural peanutbutter
Meal 4 8oz salmon with 1 cup asparagus with 1 tablespoon macadamia nut oil
Meal 5 50 g whey with 2 tablespoon PB
Meal 6 6 whole eggs

Remember, it takes 3-4 days to get into a strong ketosis where your brain is using ketone bodies (fats), instead of carbs, for energy. Be patient.

Many times I'll switch to an alternatiing diet where one day it will be protein/fat......then another protein/vegetables (very little fat). The great thing about the body and fat is that ESSENTIAL FATTY ACIDS can be stored in the muscle for several days, up to 2 weeks......therefore, once an adequate storehouse of Essential Fats are built up, the body can be "tortured" a little and it still won't give up muscle (that's assuming you're still taking in adequate protein. Protein can't be stored).

1oz almonds equals 6g carbs (2 of those grams are fiber) and 2oz equals 12g of carbs.

With the beef meal (any fatty protein meal), you should have the green salad with 1 tablespoon of Olive or Mac oil INSTEAD of the nuts. Only eat the nuts with the LEAN PROTEIN MEAL (chicken, turkey, lean fish)

The best fat sources come from the essential fatty acids-- Omega-6 and Omega-3's. Most of us get plenty of Omega-6s from cooking oils, ect..........however the Omega-3's are harder to get. I recommend WHOLE OMEGA-3 EGGS, FaTTY FISHS like SALMON and SWORDFISH and TUNA and MACKEREL, ALMONDS and WALNUTS have some OMEGA-3's (as well as OMEGA-6s). ANother great fat source is MONOUNSATURATES such as EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL and MACADAMIA NUT OIL.....they aren't essential but they are great for the metabolism (great source of energy) and they are extremely good for your heart.

You're not getting any indirect sources of carbs (just from the 1 spoonful of PB.... you may want to have at least one 1/3cup nuts meal. Remember, Olive or Macadamia nut oil is predominantly a MONOUNSATURATED FAT (good for the heart, but not essential)........ the nuts, and fish oil have the essential fats in them. Also, with regard to FLAX SEED OIL, the OMEGA-3 Fatty Acids found in them (alpha-linolenic acid) has a very poor conversion to DHA and EPA (Essential Omega-3 intermediates) in the HUMAN........therefore, you're much better off taking in FISH OILS (that already contain DHA/EPA) than FLAX SEED OIL.

Once fat loss slows, I always increase cardio first, then I increase the amount of fat burners (clen, cytomel, lipolyze).........After those other methods are exhausted, only then, do I play with the diet.

Always eat BEFORE lifting........never BETWEEN lifting and cardio.
Artificial Sweetners:
The artificial sweetener itself (eg. aspartame, sucralose) wont cause a problem. It's what some companies complex it with. For example, EQUAL and SPLENDA combine their aspartame and sucrolose with 1g of maltodextrin........whereas, in diet drinks, they don't do that. So, diet drinks are okay, SPLENDA and EQUAL must be used in moderation (STEVIA BALANCE is fine though since they use inulin fiber instead of maltodextrin

Forget using:
-MCT's are a waste when you're dieting. If you're gonna use FATS for an energy source, they might as well serve a function in the body. MCTs are useless. They can only serve as a source of energy!
-Arginine is not going to do anything. It will DO something; just not dramatic.

Cardio:
CARDIO should be performed at a low intensity (under 120bpm heartrate). This will ensure that you use FAT as a fuelsource since as your heartrate increase, carbohydrates begin to become the preferred fuel of choice for the body. When on a low carb diet, you're body will break down muscle and turn that into carbs. Remember, Fat CANNOT be changed into carbs. Therefore, for bodybuilding, the rule of cardio should be LONG DURATION, LOW INTENSITY

never do less than 20 min per session

The BOTTOM LINE is that low intensity cardio (while you might need more of it) ensures that fat is utilized and muscle is spared (especially while on my high protein/moderate fat/low carb diety).

Do you feel the treadmill is better for cardio, or is the bike(stationary or recumbent) just as good? As long as the intensity is LOW, it doesn't matter which piece of equipment you use

Q&A:
Q: Is gluconeogenesis inevitable in your diet?
Dave Palumbo: NO

Q: If so do I need to consume more than 1.5 grams of protein per lb of LBM so as not to lose muscle?
Dave Palumbo: The fat spares the protein....when the brain is in ketosis, the carbohydrate requirements are very very low.

Q: How much (percentage) of my protein intake would be turned into glucose (gluconeogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: Very little (maybe 10%)

Q: What do you think of submersion in cold water as a means of burning bodyfat (thermogenesis)?
Dave Palumbo: HOCUS POKUS!

Q: How about drinking lots of cold water (I think this was even suggested by Elligton Darden) to help lose bodyfat?
Dave Palumbo: RIDICULOUS

Q: Do you think drinking lots of Green Tea is beneficial to fat loss?
Dave Palumbo: Somewhat helpful.

Q: How much is the ideal dosage of Omega 3 for a 220 lb. individual ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to take in about 9g per day

Q: How many Tbs of peanut butter could I have instead of 1/2 cup of cashewnuts?
Dave Palumbo: 2 tablespoons, two tablespoons of Peanut Butter contains 190 calories and 16 grams of fat (so 1.5 tablespoon equals about 12 grams fat) ...whereas......... 2oz (1/3 cup) almonds (about 40 almonds) = 12g fat

Q: I want to add that if I cant find the omega eggs here locally. Can I use international egg whites and just take an omega supplement?
Dave Palumbo: You can get away with 5 whole eggs (regular ones) once a day........not a big deal. You'll be burning up all that fat anyway.

Q: Whats the max cups # of coffee ( no sugar ) can consume on Dave's diet ?
Dave Palumbo: Try to limit to 2 cups per day.......I realize that towards the end of the diet you may need more to help you get through the day.

Q: If you cook tilapia in macadamon nut oil?do you coun't the oil as your fat for that meal! Depends how much you use.
Dave Palumbo: If you just grease the pan with it, no!

Q: what is the protein,carb and fat ratio for offseason
Dave Palumbo: 50% Protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs

Q: and the ratio for contest prep.
Dave Palumbo:60% protein, 30% fat, 10% carbs

[nextBIGone]

Originally Posted by bahndrvr

I went from 22% to 11% BF in 5 weeks last time

Good GOD DUDE!! That is one hell of a accomplishment!

[bahndrvr]

Originally Posted by nextBIGone

Good GOD DUDE!! That is one hell of a accomplishment!

Thanks,

I deploy wiht the military so it's easy to do the diet, currently I'm on day 3 of starting it and I'm up to around 18-20%, I'm 224 right now and lost about 4 pounds the first few days, to be expected from water weight.

I do this thing Lyle MacDonald way and I see results. I eat TONS of Chicken and Eggs, with some Bacon in there along with sausage occasionally. I'm done with my depletion workouts and starting cardio today, I'm not into Keto yet but the mettalicy taste is starting in my mouth so I'm close, might even be in partial Keto but I think my 80 minutes of Cardio coming up in a few minutes will get me there

I do a 6 on 1 off cycle with Proper carb up on my off day. Meaning, I eat Healthy carbs, and do it every 2-3 hours when I'm on my carb up day, no doughnuts or cheesecake

My workout is like this, and I don't go light:

Day one: Upper body
Day two: Lower Body
Day three: Cardio and Abs
Day four: Cardio
Day five: Cardio and Abs
Day six: small carb up pre-workout, think powerbar and gatorade, then total body workout with at least two workouts on each mucle group.
Day seven: off and carb up

Taht's it, I do between 60-120 minutes of cardio in the "fat" burning range, usually a mixture of Running, Elliptical, and biking, I also play Soccer a few times a week right now.

I'm fully expecting to run this for only 5-6 weeks to Jump start my metabolism and get alot more dry and lean before I head back to Germany, and then eventually Florida as I'm moving there in the summer

got to get ripped, and to the guy eating strawberries, as of right now, my Only Carb intake is a little from the Teriayki Beef Jerky I eat as a snake, and from my Cheese I add to my Chicken breast, you don't have to have carbs, and when you get them for the first time in a week, it's a tingly feeling in the back of your head, feels great.

[Ronn]

I'm a big fan of UD2 as well--bulk or cut, simply ajust the carb loads.

Ronn

[qhams]

Good to hear some fellow CKD are here. My personal best is

190 42" waist and 30% bodyfat to
175 33" waist and 9% bodyfat

This took about 16 weeks for me...however I had bad weeks from not adhering to the diet and also took 1or 2 weeks off the diet for mental sanity.

The diet works well for me but after 6-8 weeks of it I get sick of it. Usually taking a week off and then hoping back on works for me mentally.

An 11% drop in body fat is incredible. Wish I could accomplish this however the amount of cardio and training your doing explains alot of it. I am slowly uping my cardio each week...right now only 2 sessions of cardio for 400 calories each time...gonna build it up to 600 calories and doing 2 heavy wt training sessions and 2 circuit training sessions a week.

[PowerHouse32]

Originally Posted by Lockk

I understand the need to get down 40-60 grams of carbs and get the fat up but jeez I am struggling. ,

As long as you got your carbs in check , and your protein HIGH, try adding olive oil to just about everything you eat. Hell, 1 serving is about 135 calories (per teaspoon i think)
Also throw in some avocados, and all your EFA's (fish oil, cla, ala, flax seed etc).