Cutting and want to retain muscle

[OhHannah]

Basic stats: I'm 3F (fat, female and forty), and as a consequence I know I'm also 4F. In other words, I'm fucked when it comes to building muscle and losing fat quickly or easily. I can work around these things, especially with intelligently applied chemical assistance, but it's definitely a disadvantaged position to start from.

As close as I can measure it, which is to say not very close, my bf% apears to bounce around the high 20's to low 30's. Before I get blasted for still being there after 4+ years of healthy eating and weight training, I'll say that I have been flat out unwilling to reduce my weight to a point that I feel unsafe on my job. Weight and physical leverage is a huge safety factor in doing some of what I do, and I would not feel safe or comfortable at a "normal" girly weight for my height. Fortunately I really do have a "big boned" frame, with shoulders wider than a lot of guys I've dated. I tend to look stocky and rangy even when I'm thin, and I don't really look fat even when I'm carrying a fair bit of weight.

To a certain extent the more weight I gained the more effective I was on the job, so I kept gaining until I was actually fat and unfit. I realized that weight wasn't what I needed, muscle was what I needed, so I took up lifting and started eating a high protein diet instead of processed or junk foods.

I really do need to weigh a lot for my height (I'm 5'3"), but I would prefer that as much of that weight as possible be quality muscle. So as I pack muscle on I'm taking more fat off. I just haven't wanted to dump too much of it in a hurry to avoid losing too much scale weight. After gaining about 20 pounds on a 4 month clean bulk (and at the same time losing inches around my waist), I can now afford to seriously start cutting.

What I don't want to do is to lose much of my muscle gains, so I'm trying to run a fairly small kcal deficit from maintenance/basal calories (roughly 8 to 10X bodyweight in daily calories, heavy on the protein, fairly low on fat and low-ish on carbs except in the morning and pre/post workout) and run a larger caloric deficit from exercise. Doing double cardio (mostly 15-20 minute HIIT interval sessions with a few 30-40 minute standard interval sessions thrown in) while sticking to my 3X moderate to heavy 1X light weight lifting schedule.

I've already gotten some feedback about not cutting my carbs quite so low, which I may well pay heed to if that's what it takes to avoid losing muscle. I'm not in a tearing hurry to accomplish any particular goals, I just want to get permanently stronger, fitter and bigger. Any additional helpful feedback is gratefully received.

[Blood1]

Originally Posted by OhHannah

Basic stats: I'm 3F (fat, female and forty), and as a consequence I know I'm also 4F. In other words, I'm fucked when it comes to building muscle and losing fat quickly or easily. I can work around these things, especially with intelligently applied chemical assistance, but it's definitely a disadvantaged position to start from.

As close as I can measure it, which is to say not very close, my bf% apears to bounce around the high 20's to low 30's. Before I get blasted for still being there after 4+ years of healthy eating and weight training, I'll say that I have been flat out unwilling to reduce my weight to a point that I feel unsafe on my job. Weight and physical leverage is a huge safety factor in doing some of what I do, and I would not feel safe or comfortable at a "normal" girly weight for my height. Fortunately I really do have a "big boned" frame, with shoulders wider than a lot of guys I've dated. I tend to look stocky and rangy even when I'm thin, and I don't really look fat even when I'm carrying a fair bit of weight.

To a certain extent the more weight I gained the more effective I was on the job, so I kept gaining until I was actually fat and unfit. I realized that weight wasn't what I needed, muscle was what I needed, so I took up lifting and started eating a high protein diet instead of processed or junk foods.

I really do need to weigh a lot for my height (I'm 5'3"), but I would prefer that as much of that weight as possible be quality muscle. So as I pack muscle on I'm taking more fat off. I just haven't wanted to dump too much of it in a hurry to avoid losing too much scale weight. After gaining about 20 pounds on a 4 month clean bulk (and at the same time losing inches around my waist), I can now afford to seriously start cutting.

What I don't want to do is to lose much of my muscle gains, so I'm trying to run a fairly small kcal deficit from maintenance/basal calories (roughly 8 to 10X bodyweight in daily calories, heavy on the protein, fairly low on fat and low-ish on carbs except in the morning and pre/post workout) and run a larger caloric deficit from exercise. Doing double cardio (mostly 15-20 minute HIIT interval sessions with a few 30-40 minute standard interval sessions thrown in) while sticking to my 3X moderate to heavy 1X light weight lifting schedule.

I've already gotten some feedback about not cutting my carbs quite so low, which I may well pay heed to if that's what it takes to avoid losing muscle. I'm not in a tearing hurry to accomplish any particular goals, I just want to get permanently stronger, fitter and bigger. Any additional helpful feedback is gratefully received.

Understanding that you need to be a decent size 30% body fat can't be helping you regardless of your job. I don't know a job youd be able to perform better at 30% bf then 11-20% bf with the same amount of muscle. I would decrease calories a good amount. You already expressed your intended uses of anabolics. I wouldn't worry too much if i were you. Eat clean, cut calories and carbs, continue lifting and cardio.

[YoungNJacked]

ok ur in good hands girl. i have been a personal trainer for about 3 years now, i will be 24 next week actually. i have always been a big boned kid myself and one thing i have learned for our bodytypes is u want as much muscle as u can without getting too sloppy, then lean it out rather than "cut" weight. i am a former college ball player and after 3 years of learning how my body works i am now 6'3-'64 and 290ish at 15% or so. i get really really big offseason when i generally look like a damn freak size wise. but come summertime i cut rather easily because i have SO MUCH MUSCLE. the point u have to get over in ur mind is muscle is ur friend!!! .........i got my start training when a few girlfriends asked me to train them. at that time i was just starting off and i found it fun "reshaping" these girls. i was a firm beleiver in eating enough or maybe over calorie maintainence, but i would do cardio with them everyday for 30-60min a day. we would take one day off and completely pig out with cheesecake facotory to feel normal, lol....or rather american. i think if u can stick to 30 min atleast everyday of the week in addition to compound lifts on ur scheduled days, u will be fine. i wouldnt really focus so much on low fat, try to get in a lot of healthy fats like almonds, avocados and fish of course. as far as chemical enhancement......i had an ex use clen as well as an ECA stack. clen gave her the jitters, but worked well. she got toned and tight really really quick. the ECA stack was good for energy but she didnt like it for some reason compared to clen. for women the clen seems to get them really horny, so i guess she preferred it, or rather i did, lol! hope that helps and welcome to the board!!! YNJ

[YoungNJacked]

Originally Posted by Blood1

Understanding that you need to be a decent size 30% body fat can't be helping you regardless of your job. I don't know a job youd be able to perform better at 30% bf then 11-20% bf with the same amount of muscle. I would decrease calories a good amount. You already expressed your intended uses of anabolics. I wouldn't worry too much if i were you. Eat clean, cut calories and carbs, continue lifting and cardio.

negative ghost rider, womens metabolism are already low compared to us, why would she decrease cals? i would say crank up the heat and hit that stepmill or elliptical like no other girl. actually increase ur cals with only healthy fats and protein by about 100 cals. then every 5 pounds u lose take off 100 cals from there. u dont want dramatic gains, that gives stretch marks and unwanted loss of mass leading to saggy boobs or cellulite at a low bf%

[OhHannah]

Originally Posted by Blood1

Understanding that you need to be a decent size 30% body fat can't be helping you regardless of your job. I don't know a job youd be able to perform better at 30% bf then 11-20% bf with the same amount of muscle.

Believe me, scale weight really and truly matters for my safety. Within reasonable limits, the more I weigh while still remaining strong and agile, the safer I am. It's a somewhat obscure job, not the usual sort of thing by any means, but I love it and am committed to this career path. I'm not willing to discuss the specifics here, but would consider disclosing privately if it really seems important or relevant to someone who is genuinely interested in giving advice. What matters for the here and now of a BB board is that my goal is to keep my scale weight reasonably constant and not dip too far below 130 at any given time.

I would decrease calories a good amount. You already expressed your intended uses of anabolics. I wouldn't worry too much if i were you. Eat clean, cut calories and carbs, continue lifting and cardio.

Decrease calories below 8 to 10X body weight? I would like to keep muscle and don't mind losing fat more slowly to do so. I could hit the bromocriptine and drop calories very low indeed, but I don't think that would be doing my hard-earned LBM any favors.

I'm using AAS very conservatively. I just finished one "testing" cycle of low-dose Deca-Durabolin after four years of lifting naturally and researching the subject, mostly in the context of medical use as well as anecdotal data from the BB community. I am going to stay clean for at least six weeks, then start low dose oral Winny (5mg/day split into two doses) to check for sides, and if there are no appreciable sides, either ramp to 10mg/day or continue the 2.5mg/sid protocol primarily to decrease SHBG while adding Deca-Durabolin back in at 25 to 50 mg on a 7 to 10 day interval.

AAS isn't particularly good for losing body fat so much as retaining lean body mass, which is definitely my goal. I'm wary of using the common cutting agents for various reasons having to do with my medical risk profile, so it's diet and cardio for me.

[YoungNJacked]

Originally Posted by OhHannah

Believe me, scale weight really and truly matters for my safety. Within reasonable limits, the more I weigh while still remaining strong and agile, the safer I am. It's a somewhat obscure job, not the usual sort of thing by any means, but I love it and am committed to this career path. I'm not willing to discuss the specifics here, but would consider disclosing privately if it really seems important or relevant to someone who is genuinely interested in giving advice. What matters for the here and now of a BB board is that my goal is to keep my scale weight reasonably constant and not dip too far below 130 at any given time.




Decrease calories below 8 to 10X body weight? I would like to keep muscle and don't mind losing fat more slowly to do so. I could hit the bromocriptine and drop calories very low indeed, but I don't think that would be doing my hard-earned LBM any favors.

I'm using AAS very conservatively. I just finished one "testing" cycle of low-dose Deca-Durabolin after four years of lifting naturally and researching the subject, mostly in the context of medical use as well as anecdotal data from the BB community. I am going to stay clean for at least six weeks, then start low dose oral Winny (5mg/day split into two doses) to check for sides, and if there are no appreciable sides, either ramp to 10mg/day or continue the 2.5mg/sid protocol primarily to decrease SHBG while adding Deca-Durabolin back in at 25 to 50 mg on a 7 to 10 day interval.

AAS isn't particularly good for losing body fat so much as retaining lean body mass, which is definitely my goal. I'm wary of using the common cutting agents for various reasons having to do with my medical risk profile, so it's diet and cardio for me.

im not too sure what ur asking girlie..........or if ur asking anything?

[OhHannah]

Originally Posted by YoungNJacked

im not too sure what ur asking girlie..........or if ur asking anything?

I'm asking for tips on cutting fat while staying as big as possible and conserving as much muscle as possible.

[Blood1]

Originally Posted by YoungNJacked

negative ghost rider, womens metabolism are already low compared to us, why would she decrease cals? i would say crank up the heat and hit that stepmill or elliptical like no other girl. actually increase ur cals with only healthy fats and protein by about 100 cals. then every 5 pounds u lose take off 100 cals from there. u dont want dramatic gains, that gives stretch marks and unwanted loss of mass leading to saggy boobs or cellulite at a low bf%

I didn't mean a drastic caloric cut, but obviously at 30%bf i don't feel the need to be overly conservative either.

And Ohhannah i'm not judgeing you or being rude. I'm just saying what i think. If you need to be bigger for work reasons thats fine. IDK your work situations and i don't need to. I'm basing it on the info you provided.

[OhHannah]

Originally Posted by Blood1

I didn't mean a drastic caloric cut, but obviously at 30%bf i don't feel the need to be overly conservative either.

That's fine, but do you think that my goals will really be well served by reducing calories below 8X body weight, while lifting 4X weekly and doing cardio 2X daily?

[Blood1]

I cut like this.

Calculate your BMR
Add in the calories you burn daily during exercise
Eat 200-500 calories less than that
Run in the morning after a CARB FREE protein shake
Run after weight training after a protein shake
No carbs after 2pm. All carbs before 2 complex.

I think you will benefit from this as well. When you bump up the protein and keep carbs at a minimum and add in the muscle sparing effects of the drugs (used conservativly or not) You will cut fat and leave muscle loss to somewhat of a minimum. If the weight loss is too slow or too fast simply readjust.