Irish americans

[hitch]

Not just irish americans but anybody who does not live in ireland who claims to support the IRA.
For along time now ive seen so called irish americans on the forums who have irish republican slogans in the avatars/sig"s.
From IRA slogans like bobby sands and even republican gunmen. Most of these people have never even been in ireland, but because their great great grandfather or whatever was from ireland they think they are irish and have a right to support republican terrorism.
Yes they have irish blood in them, be proud of that. But dont claim to know the 30 years of war we have lived through because you read books on it.
The outside world seem to think the IRA are heroes and are fighting to protect people,, bullshit they are nothing more than murderers who have killed innocent men/women and children.
Through bombs and shootings.
Ive had people in my family and in friends family killed by this. Its not something which should be glorified. The people of belfast want to live in peace and thankfully we have for near 10 years now.
Republicans were not victims,, we were all victims in a dirty little war.
I just got pissed off reading a stupid IRA forum inwhich people who are not even from here want to see the return to war. They have not lived through that and its so ignorant to people from ireland who have lost friends and family during the war here.
I suppose this is more a rant of mine lol. But id love to debate with people from america or whatever on why they think they can support terrorism when they dont live here nor have experienced it in their life.

[Marx]

Do you see the actions of the British as state terrorism, hitch?

[hitch]

Yes i do. The british and im proud to be british have done many terrible things.
They did collude with loyalist paramilitaries, but somebody had to fight back and the loyalist people mainly the UFF took the war to the IRA.

But besides that, the british empire had no right to try and rule the world the way they did. They just stole countries and its there fault that ireland is the way it is.

I see both sides of this.

[hitch]

do IRA supporters on the boards find this offensive?.





Funny thing was that i was told to remove a UDA badge years ago on a forum but its ok to have bobby sands and IRA logos and slogans.

[Magni]

Hey Hitch..

I really like England. I have made two trips to London is the last year and found it one of the best places possible to visit. Best Indian food I have ever eaten. A very civil society. When I was in Iraq I was fortunate enough to work with the British and Australians and found them very competent, efficient and cordial. I would only fly into and out of Baghdad with the British. If I could actually afford to live in London, I would.

I have to disagree on supporting the IRA or any other group. Think about it. Do Jews in America support the Israelis even though they may be many generations removed from Israel? Hell yes they do. Terrorism is horrible no matter who is behind it. Think about this though. Your country is occupied. You have limited arms, men and other resources. How do you, through diplomacy, regain control of what was and is your country? Terrorism is a form of war that has always been practiced. You could call the fire bombing of Japan Terrorism by todays standards. I call it using what is available to force action. Unfortunately violence solves everything even today.

[Marx]

Hey there hitch,

Terrorism is bad no matter who does it. Taking up arms against an occupier is called resistance, the French did it against the German occupier and it was OK, but not the Irish against the British occupier? The Irish have fought for how many hundreds of years?

Brother, you self identify as British. You are in the lineage of an occupying force. Of course IRA seem to be terrorist, not freedom fighter. It is perspective.

The British already have an army to project force in Ireland. The Ulster Defence Association is a paramilitary group outside the law. It gets help from the British Army and Royal Ulster Constabulary (occupational British police forces) to murder and do state dirty work outside the law.

Resistance to occupation, targeting state forces- LEGAL.
Collaboration with occupying state forces- terrorism.

Targeting civilians, both sides= terrorism

The UDA is also comprised of/linked to neo-Nazi groups.

You can research this stuff using a search engine, I won't waste anymore breath on it myself.

My 2 cents

[hitch]

i dont need to research it as i grew up in a loyalist UDA area.

This is a good debate.

Fighting an occupying force is legal in your words. Is it legal then to kill women and chidren?. Kingsmill massacre inwhich i think 10 protestant workers were lined up and shot dead by the IRA, is that legal. La mons fire bombing were women and kids were burnt alive, is that legal?.
Shankill bombing, omagh bombing , enniskillen and many many other attacks on innocent people is NOT LEGAL.
Not all members of the RUC were supporters of loyalist violence, I know this as i have family who were in the RUC in the 70"s and 80"s and they are against violence of any kind. I know former UDR soldiers who are against violence.

You say the UDA is conected to the neo nazi groups. Yes there are members who do support that stuff and the Likes of combat 18 and the national front do support the loyalist cause because they are british and see our fight against the republicans as a justified cause.
However ive only ever known a handful of UDA members who personally support any racist groups, most good UDA men dont support it at all.

Yes the police and british forces gave the UFF and UVF info on republican targets, thats well known.
But wheres the crime there. After all the police and army were being targeted everyday by terrorists. The protestant people needed defended and they formed their own groups.
Most republicans seem t think the UFF is a cover name for the UDA,, wrong.
The UFF is the military wing of the UDA and not all members of the UDA are in the freedom fighters.
The main goal of the UFF was to hit republican areas were it hurt and sadly that was by killing alot of innocent catholics.

IRA has fooled the world into this republican propaganda that they were victims and they did no harm.
They fail to mention the crime, the murders and all other ILLEGAL actions they take part in.
Is it legal to be in south america in a terrorist training camp with cocaine and weapons.

I know the loyalist groups are mainly all organised crime now, but dont think for one minute the provos and sinn fein are innocent people.

[Marx]

Originally Posted by hitch

i dont need to research it as i grew up in a loyalist UDA area.

This is a good debate.

Fighting an occupying force is legal in your words. Is it legal then to kill women and chidren?. Kingsmill massacre inwhich i think 10 protestant workers were lined up and shot dead by the IRA, is that legal. La mons fire bombing were women and kids were burnt alive, is that legal?.
Shankill bombing, omagh bombing , enniskillen and many many other attacks on innocent people is NOT LEGAL.
Not all members of the RUC were supporters of loyalist violence, I know this as i have family who were in the RUC in the 70"s and 80"s and they are against violence of any kind. I know former UDR soldiers who are against violence.

You say the UDA is conected to the neo nazi groups. Yes there are members who do support that stuff and the Likes of combat 18 and the national front do support the loyalist cause because they are british and see our fight against the republicans as a justified cause.
However ive only ever known a handful of UDA members who personally support any racist groups, most good UDA men dont support it at all.

Yes the police and british forces gave the UFF and UVF info on republican targets, thats well known.
But wheres the crime there. After all the police and army were being targeted everyday by terrorists. The protestant people needed defended and they formed their own groups.
Most republicans seem t think the UFF is a cover name for the UDA,, wrong.
The UFF is the military wing of the UDA and not all members of the UDA are in the freedom fighters.
The main goal of the UFF was to hit republican areas were it hurt and sadly that was by killing alot of innocent catholics.

IRA has fooled the world into this republican propaganda that they were victims and they did no harm.
They fail to mention the crime, the murders and all other ILLEGAL actions they take part in.
Is it legal to be in south america in a terrorist training camp with cocaine and weapons.

I know the loyalist groups are mainly all organised crime now, but dont think for one minute the provos and sinn fein are innocent people.

Originally Posted by hitch

i dont need to research it as i grew up in a loyalist UDA area.

This is a good debate.

Fighting an occupying force is legal in your words. Is it legal then to kill women and chidren?. Kingsmill massacre inwhich i think 10 protestant workers were lined up and shot dead by the IRA, is that legal. La mons fire bombing were women and kids were burnt alive, is that legal?.
Shankill bombing, omagh bombing , enniskillen and many many other attacks on innocent people is NOT LEGAL.
Not all members of the RUC were supporters of loyalist violence, I know this as i have family who were in the RUC in the 70"s and 80"s and they are against violence of any kind. I know former UDR soldiers who are against violence.

You say the UDA is conected to the neo nazi groups. Yes there are members who do support that stuff and the Likes of combat 18 and the national front do support the loyalist cause because they are british and see our fight against the republicans as a justified cause.
However ive only ever known a handful of UDA members who personally support any racist groups, most good UDA men dont support it at all.

Yes the police and british forces gave the UFF and UVF info on republican targets, thats well known.
But wheres the crime there. After all the police and army were being targeted everyday by terrorists. The protestant people needed defended and they formed their own groups.
Most republicans seem t think the UFF is a cover name for the UDA,, wrong.
The UFF is the military wing of the UDA and not all members of the UDA are in the freedom fighters.
The main goal of the UFF was to hit republican areas were it hurt and sadly that was by killing alot of innocent catholics.

IRA has fooled the world into this republican propaganda that they were victims and they did no harm.
They fail to mention the crime, the murders and all other ILLEGAL actions they take part in.
Is it legal to be in south america in a terrorist training camp with cocaine and weapons.

I know the loyalist groups are mainly all organised crime now, but dont think for one minute the provos and sinn fein are innocent people.

Hey hitch, I appreciate your measured response, having grown up in the area and felt the effects of the violence.

Killing innocent women and children is wrong. I clearly stated that. Both sides have done their share, we both know that.

Great Britain projects authorized state power in your neck of the woods. Paramilitary militias? Illegal addenda to state force. All I can think of when you called the UFF "freedom fighters" is "Freedom from who? From the power of Great Britain? Freedom from the folks that are native to the soil, that are the majority? Pretty self evident.

It is good that you see less folks agreeing with the national front and that type of shithead. I trust your appraisal.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" Ghandi said. People in your homeland want peace, are tired of the killing, justice is in the air.

I hope you see it soon, bro. Been a long time coming. Must be some hell to live through.

Best,
marx

[hitch]

I used the term freedom fighters as thats what we call them for short.
It is ironic that they are called the ulster freedom fighters and i have been puzzled many times before as to what freedom there is.

Growing up in a place like belfast was not easy.
If you did anything wrong you would have faced being beaten by masked men or at worse being shot in the kneecaps and the elbows if you were extra naughty. It was a tough area and it still happens but thankfully we dont have bombs going of eveyday now.
I hope for peace and i hope the future generations wont have to even see the paramilitaries. I dont think it will happen in my time.